With regards to Ergonomics being a random comparison of product against product this is so wrong it makes me angry. If you don’t know something ask a question, don’t assume you know the answer! I am a trained Industrial Designer who went on to do a MSc in Ergonomics. I too thought that Ergonomics was just common sense and based on anatomy and physiology. I was so wrong. There are so many facets to consider. It is a complicated process and as such many companies pay a premium to get people in to do it right first time, and not rely on people who think they know.

Instead of listing all the elements of ergonomics (of which there are many) I’ll try to demonstrate how I would have gone about ergonomically designing this carrier. First off, look at the guidance on appropriate weights for humans to carry in the hand and balance the decision for how many bottles to carry against how many bottles people want to carry. Consider carrying the maximum load in one hand/arm. Consider selling pair or bags if cost/margins allow. Then work out the maximum weight of a fully loaded bag and look up recommended pressures/forces on the hand. Look at the population cross section and design for the 5th percentile female hand. From this work out the cross sectional width of the handle to spread the load evenly across the hand. Consider over moulding the handle with a softer material to minimise pressure points. Then work out how the bags can be carried whilst keeping the arm as straight and close to the side of the body. (holding the bag away from your legs uses the deltoid muscles in the neck/back which causes fatigue and discomfort). Consider angling and rotating the handle to minimise this effect. Consider bottle position. Consider intended use. Considering the load, the potential for extreme temperatures and the likelihood that the carrier will be put down with some force having been very uncomfortable to carry, even though its been ‘ergonomically designed’, it is likely that a brittle acrylic will shatter or get damaged upon impact with a hard surface, therefore if an alternative material isn’t feasible, fit a rubberised base……
I could go on. To be honest, an Ergonomist would have probably suggested using wheels to transport this number of bottles.

For a while cars were designed from the outside in. The Lamborghini Countach for example. Beautiful to look at with an awesome engine, but an absolute pig to drive for any length of time. And if you were over 5’9″ forget it!! Now all cars are designed from the occupants out. Designing ergonomically requires the same mindset and a full understanding of the human. This is why Ergonomists are useful and this is why products such as the iphone is widly acknowledged as being one of the most user friendly devices you can buy. It is not by chance and this is not the work of a designer. The fact that nuclear/oil plants have so few issues is down to ergonomics becoming the norm after Chernobyl and 5 mile island. Soon, poor design will not be acceptable to the buying public. Ergonomic design will be essential. What gets up my nose however, is when people/marketing say things are ‘Ergonomically Designed’ when they are clearly not. This product is clearly not ergonomically designed. End of.

Don’t get me wrong, designers know their thing, but we all have limits. I know mine an it mean I can’t draw for sh*t! My design course taught me to look at product design through the eyes of the client, considering trends in fasion and technology and manufacturing constraints. Ergonomics taught me how to look at a product through the eyes of the customer.

M

Lift your arm just a few degrees, maybe a tad more if you have high blood pressure. Hold it there for a few moments. Your veins should fade and you might possibly find there are ever so slight grooves where you saw your veins. This is due to blood rapidly draining from your arm, causing your veins to collapse.

Now, drop your arm limp. Let it sit there for a little bit. Not only should you see the grooves fill in and the blue streaks return, they might even buldge out a bit. This is due to blood pooling slightly in your arm, as it now has to return against a gravitational gradient.

If you’d know crap about anatomy and physiology, you’d know that this is a totally normal process with very little to do with nutrition, and the visually apparent effect becomes more pronounced as people age.

That so-called ergonomist didn’t know something as simple and fundamental as this, faulting the design for it, so I really must wonder what else he doesn’t know.

As for your spiel about ergonomics, by what systematic metric would a design be considered ergonomic? Well? Yeah, exactly, there isn’t one. The closest thing to that would be an itemization of risk factors for injury. Beyond that, the degree to which something is ergonomic demands a subjective comparison to objects with a similar function. This is certainly more ergonomic than alternatives, such as a boxy cooler or a loose bag. As far as it matters, claiming it’s ergonomic isn’t inaccurate.

I don’t get black eyes, despite being an arrogant bastard at times. Do you know why? Because I’m usually right about the things I criticize.

I believe Mr Disgruntled Ergonomist was expressing frustration at the use of the term ‘Ergonomically Designed’. I have to agree with him. This term is over used and used inappropriately. Ergonomists input to designer’s work. They even do some design work! You correctly refer to a number of subjects that input into the ergonomic design process, but they also consider how users may use the product, inside and outside of its intended scope of use. 10kgs in each hand and a small 10mm strip of plastic, regardless of it being curved and smooth does not make it ergonomically designed. If the intended use is to transport 6 bottles for more than a few meters, then due consideration should have been given to the profile and width of the handle. ‘Any’ ergonomist would pick up on this, so I think the comment stands. This isn’t ergonomically designed and I second the motion that this term is over used/used inappropriately by many professions.

Finally a bit of advice Luke: Get off your high horse and take a chill pill. Forums are for sharing views not insulting people. In the real world you’d end up with 2 black eyes…….probably best you stay at home behind your computer screen then!

M

p.s. If your veins are bulging just by holding your hands below your heart I’d seek medical advice my friend. Your nutrition is clearly not balanced!

Now, it doesn’t matter how much you overdesign a bag, the fact remains that one side will be weighed down more than the other unless you have something to balance it off. This is no worse than a cooler or a shopping bag. Come back when you have a real complaint.

So the solution to uneven back strain is to buy another one. so i carry double the booze, or half in each bag?

what a dope.!